WEIRD SLICING>>>

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robertfuchs
Posts: 10
Joined: 25 Jun 2015, 06:39

WEIRD SLICING>>>

Post by robertfuchs »

HELLO, FOLKS.

AS A COMPLETE NEWCOMER TO 3D PRINTING, I AM USING SLIC3R AND REPETIER TO GET THE GCODE THAT CONTROLS MY MACHINE - A BRASILIAN MADE REPRAP, WITH AUTOMATIC TABLE LEVELING. ONE OF MY STL FILES WAS PERFECTLY SLICED WITH THE SLIC3R. HOWEVER, THE SAME FILE, USING KISSLICER (FREE VERSION) SHOWS SOME QUITE STRANGE MESSAGES, LIKE SHOWING THE MESH ERROR KEY AND SAYING THAT SLICING MAY USE 3778546.2 MB, WHEN RAM WARNING IS SET AT 6144.0 MB AND THE SYSTEM HAS 12288.0 RAM.

EVEN TRYING TO SLICE WITH THOSE WARNINGS, I GET ANOTHER MESSAGE SAYING THAT CANNOT SLICE THE MODEL WITH THE CONFIGURATION SET.

OTHER FILES WORK PERFECTLY. SO, ANYONE CAN SUGGEST WHAT MAY BE GOING WRONG? I AM READY TO SEND THE STL FILE TO ANYBODY THAT MAY BE WILLING TO INVESTIGATE WHAT I AM DOING WRONG.

THANKS A LOT FOR ANY HELP.
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Davide Ardizzoia
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Joined: 07 Nov 2014, 13:05
Location: Oleggio, Italy
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Re: WEIRD SLICING>>>

Post by Davide Ardizzoia »

1) Using caps is not a good way to communicate (like yelling)

2) Abnormal memory use is often the result of setting extremely high resolution: usually 0.2mm will do a good job with most geometries

3) If kisslicer complains about geometry, usually there is a good reason for it.

4) IF you have problems with just one file, chances are that file is really bad :-)

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia
robertfuchs
Posts: 10
Joined: 25 Jun 2015, 06:39

Re: WEIRD SLICING>>>

Post by robertfuchs »

Thanks for your answer, Davide. Sorry for the caps. I didn't even noticed that I was writting with the caps on.
I got the problem in at least two files. Certainlly you are right, and I shall model them again. I usually use my printer to make small architectural models. So, I begin with any CAD program, in 2D and import the drawing to SketchUp. From there on I extrude what I need and go ahead with a few softwares, until I have a non-error stl file. Sometimes I use the 123D Design from AutoDesk. As a matter of fact, I was using 0.2mm layer thickness, so I could not understand why I had the problem. Right now, I am printing a test 100x100mm square, 5mm high, and I am quite happy with the result. However, at the beginning of the first perimeter, I got a kind of a blob. I am using PLA, 1.75mm diameter (I checked it with a digital caliper), Prime = 3, Suck = 2.5 and Wipe = 10 . Would this be OK?
As soon as I feel proficient with KISSlicer, certainly I shall purchase the PRO version, even that my machine has just one extruder.
Thanks again for your help.
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PenskeGuy
Posts: 98
Joined: 08 Nov 2014, 18:04

Re: WEIRD SLICING>>>

Post by PenskeGuy »

What Davide said.... To elaborate a bit, KS does some really good examination of the STL files it is given. I find the Mesh Error function to be indispensable in identifying and locating issues with models. This makes me a better modeler. The error display allows me to go in using a poly modeler (which is what I work in anyway to generate models in the first place) and fix the problem areas by welding points or deleting duplicate polys, etc.

If KS does find issues and you go to slice anyway without fixing them, it can use LOTS of memory because it is confused by the model. Usually, this confusion comes from not being able to identify the model's outside/inside. If a model isn't manifold (watertight with no gaps, so you can see through the wall to its inside), then there is no inside as far as the slicer is concerned. It's all one surface that folds back in under itself. This can consume a lot of memory trying to figure it out and slice the form.
robertfuchs
Posts: 10
Joined: 25 Jun 2015, 06:39

Re: WEIRD SLICING>>>

Post by robertfuchs »

Thanks for your post, PenskeGuy. As a matter of fact, and having my main objective to print small architectural models, I begin with AutoCAD 2D, (or Revit, importing it to an Autocad DWG file), import it to SketchUP and from there on I generate the STL file. Normally I import that file to netfabb (basic) in order to correct any errors that the model may have. Would you mind to tell me which poly modeler do you use? I could try it and, if it helps on my models, I could use it as my main modeling software. Please answer at your best convenience. And thanks again, your post explained a lot of issues I am experiencing.
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PenskeGuy
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Joined: 08 Nov 2014, 18:04

Re: WEIRD SLICING>>>

Post by PenskeGuy »

Be aware that Netfabb is known to introduce errors as it is "fixing" others that it thinks it found. Sometimes, the model comes out in worse shape than when it went in. I've rarely found it to be reliable. Which is why I use KS's Mesh Error display to locate where the problems are, what they are, and then make intelligent decisions on how best to actually fix them until I get no errors. "Automatic" fixing can only go so far; even with MeshLab. Most times it takes a fixer having a pulse to really recognize the most efficient path to a clean mesh.

Coming from CAD software can be fraught with issues; when trying to convert those formats to polys. The two types just don't understand the shapes in the same way. They may look the same to the eye but the code to generate the shape is way different. Most times, CAD applications generate files that are nothing but a flock of points and lines flying in formation. This will wig out a slicer, as there is no surface there; just a bunch of unconnected stuff that looks as if there is. I've converted AutoCAD drawings to poly models many times for the visualizations that we do when designing glass sculptures and light fixtures for a particular location. We get the drawings and do a full-scale model of the architecture, then place the object in question into that high fidelity environment, so that it may be seen as if it were there. Half the time I end up using the 2D ortho views as a background in the viewports and just do the architecture from scratch in the poly modeler. It depends upon how ugly the translation turned out.

Native exporters are also usually less than reliable to get to an external file type. The main focus of devs is on the application they wrote. Providing an exporter from that to something else isn't what they are interested in, so do the least possible. Invest in a dedicated 3D translator instead. I use Deep Exploration, but its current version (after being Borged) is really pricey. I also use FreeCAD for translations from selected CAD formats to OBJ.

I use LightWave Modeler and/or Modo for poly modeling. Have others but those are the most often used. I only use SketchUP when a client sends me something in that format.
robertfuchs
Posts: 10
Joined: 25 Jun 2015, 06:39

Re: WEIRD SLICING>>>

Post by robertfuchs »

PenskeGuy wrote:Be aware that Netfabb is known to introduce errors as it is "fixing" others that it thinks it found. Sometimes, the model comes out in worse shape than when it went in. I've rarely found it to be reliable. Which is why I use KS's Mesh Error display to locate where the problems are, what they are, and then make intelligent decisions on how best to actually fix them until I get no errors. "Automatic" fixing can only go so far; even with MeshLab. Most times it takes a fixer having a pulse to really recognize the most efficient path to a clean mesh.

Coming from CAD software can be fraught with issues; when trying to convert those formats to polys. The two types just don't understand the shapes in the same way. They may look the same to the eye but the code to generate the shape is way different. Most times, CAD applications generate files that are nothing but a flock of points and lines flying in formation. This will wig out a slicer, as there is no surface there; just a bunch of unconnected stuff that looks as if there is. I've converted AutoCAD drawings to poly models many times for the visualizations that we do when designing glass sculptures and light fixtures for a particular location. We get the drawings and do a full-scale model of the architecture, then place the object in question into that high fidelity environment, so that it may be seen as if it were there. Half the time I end up using the 2D ortho views as a background in the viewports and just do the architecture from scratch in the poly modeler. It depends upon how ugly the translation turned out.

Native exporters are also usually less than reliable to get to an external file type. The main focus of devs is on the application they wrote. Providing an exporter from that to something else isn't what they are interested in, so do the least possible. Invest in a dedicated 3D translator instead. I use Deep Exploration, but its current version (after being Borged) is really pricey. I also use FreeCAD for translations from selected CAD formats to OBJ.

I use LightWave Modeler and/or Modo for poly modeling. Have others but those are the most often used. I only use SketchUP when a client sends me something in that format.

Many thanks, Penskeguy. Your answer is very enlightening. As a newcomer to 3D printing, I still am searching for the best ways to have a really well made 3D architectural model, with no errors, in order to generate a good and trusty gcode. As a retired architect, I am searching ways of not staying the whole day whatching TV or playing the piano, since I also was (maybe I still am) a concert pianist. And many architectural offices are asking if I could provide them with small mass models of their inicial ideas. That's how I became involved in 3D printing.For the time being, SketchUP gives me a good idea of what can be done, albeit most of the times I have to clean the model in order to have just faces and "watertight". I have noticed that netfabb acuses many errors that I am quite sure that do not exist. Anyway, I shall try to download the softwares you wrote about.

And at this beginning, after purchasing the 3D printer (more about that later) and a few filaments, I am at the process of making many test prints to get a grasp of how to configurate the slicer for each model. I am using Slic3r or KISSlicer, with results that go from very good to just horrible... and my machine is a Brazilian made reprap, with automatic table leveling, and a working space of 300 x 200 x 200 milimeters, enough for my needs, at least for the time being.

I shall keep your post printed (in paper...) and accessible, so that I may consult it as a guide. And to your info, I downloaded AutoCAD's Fusion 360, but as a complex software, I am beginning to learn it, in a quite step learning curve...

Again, thanks again for your help. And if you have any curiosity about Brazil or Rio de Janeiro, please contact me. I shall be happy to send you any info I may get. Best regards.
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PenskeGuy
Posts: 98
Joined: 08 Nov 2014, 18:04

Re: WEIRD SLICING>>>

Post by PenskeGuy »

robertfuchs wrote:Again, thanks again for your help. And if you have any curiosity about Brazil or Rio de Janeiro, please contact me. I shall be happy to send you any info I may get. Best regards.
Interesting you should offer that. We're in the process of finding a new place to move our glass blowing and art/engineering studio/rescue shelter. May take you up on it.
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