Support for Bridge Settings

McNugget6750
Posts: 32
Joined: 28 Jun 2017, 16:21

Support for Bridge Settings

Post by McNugget6750 »

- Add bridge detection with a slicing scheme similar to other slicers where the
bridge does not rely on support material but instead lays down a series of
parallel lines over the gap and then uses these to restart normal layers. At the
moment, the bridge is regarded as a normal bottom layer such that there is two or
three perimeters and the classic zig-zag in between those perimeters. That does
not print well as the zig-zag lines just fall down and look all ugly underneath.
Parallel lines all across the gap would solve that issue in most cases to
stabilize the bridge without support and create a base layer for all following
layers.

- An option to reduce the extrusion amount on the first layer of bridges to keep
the bridges from sagging down during printing the above mentioned parallel lines.
A factor would be awesome. It would also utilize the warp behavior of ABS and
partly PLA to straighten out those first bridge layers more.
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pjr
Posts: 692
Joined: 05 May 2015, 10:27
Location: Kamnik, Slovenia

Re: Support for Bridge Settings

Post by pjr »

Hi Tim

This is partially addressed in the latest 1.6 beta (released today). There is a new parameter (Material/Flow Adjust/Cool) which allows you to specify the maximum volume that the fa can properly cool to prevent sagging. For me, I have this set at 0.75mm^3/s.

I have also increased Printer/Hardware/Loop-Solid infill overlap to 0.85.

Peter
rmat
Posts: 8
Joined: 07 Oct 2016, 03:21

Re: Support for Bridge Settings

Post by rmat »

Hello, have just discovered new 1.6 and while I do like it-alot, I cannot seem to find some some bridgeing stuff.

If I understand correctly, KiSS can now see where its bridgeing or laying layers on support/interface layer.
This is all great, but where do I turn on my fan when bridgeing is active. I cannot find/turn on fan anywhere, or I am missing something? Slowing down on bridgeing is not an oprtion, it only makes things worse.
There probably ist any "fan ON/%" function when extruding support&interface, or am I not only dreaming?

Also, have some problems with support&raft, it seems I cannot or dont know how to inflate support when Im printing on raft. What am I doing wrong?

Just to clarify my questions; I print only ABS/ASA/HIPS and I find these features necessary for succesfull printing with single nozzle/extr/material printer.

Regards, Matej
rmat
Posts: 8
Joined: 07 Oct 2016, 03:21

Re: Support for Bridge Settings

Post by rmat »

Just found my whishes on this topic from almost a year ago.
rmat wrote:Hey there, loving my Kiss, its got everything one needs, but some things might need some update.

It would be super usefull when there would be option of blowing air when printing on raft or support. This would highly adress problems with support removal from model when printing with support with same material.
Also fan blowing would be super usefull when printing overhangs of over some XX degrees.

And when at it, I think it would be great if there was option when printing on support/raft, that the extrusion widh would get smaller, lets say from normal 0,5mm down to 0.3mm. Makes any scence?

Only one more, raft would need updating, lets say at least two perimeter around it and the interace layer should expand in XY a bit (1-3mm?).

If not clear I can draw something up.

Best regards, Matej
Pls help, pretty please :D
inventabuild
Posts: 271
Joined: 09 Nov 2014, 23:03

Re: Support for Bridge Settings

Post by inventabuild »

pjr wrote:Hi Tim

This is partially addressed in the latest 1.6 beta (released today). There is a new parameter (Material/Flow Adjust/Cool) which allows you to specify the maximum volume that the fa can properly cool to prevent sagging. For me, I have this set at 0.75mm^3/s.

I have also increased Printer/Hardware/Loop-Solid infill overlap to 0.85.

Peter
I found I need to have Perimeters = 2.5 or 3, Flow Adjust / Cool = 0.75 and Loop / Solid Infill Overlap =1.25 to get a level surface on the 1st layer of the bridge. It might be hard to see, but here are the undersides of 7 bridges showing the first layers:
Flow Adjust Cool 0.75, Loop Solid Infill Overlap 1.25, 2-3 perimeters
Flow Adjust Cool 0.75, Loop Solid Infill Overlap 1.25, 2-3 perimeters
Flow Adjust Cool 0.75, Loop Solid Infill Overlap 0.875, 2-3 perimeters
Flow Adjust Cool 0.75, Loop Solid Infill Overlap 0.875, 2-3 perimeters
Flow Adjust Cool 0.75, Loop Solid Infill Overlap 0.1, 2.5 perimeters
Flow Adjust Cool 0.75, Loop Solid Infill Overlap 0.1, 2.5 perimeters
inventabuild
Posts: 271
Joined: 09 Nov 2014, 23:03

Re: Support for Bridge Settings

Post by inventabuild »

You can see why the first layers turn out so rough looking at the following pics. The bridge infill only touches one side of the bridge perimeters or doesn't touch the bridge perimeters at all:

Here's my best bridge w/ 3 perimeters, Flow Adjust / Cool = 0.75 , Loop / Solid Infill Overlap = 1.25 and only one side of the bridge perimeters is bonded to the infill:
3 perimeters, 0.75 Flow Adjust / Cool, Loop / Solid Infill Overlap =1.25
3 perimeters, 0.75 Flow Adjust / Cool, Loop / Solid Infill Overlap =1.25
Here' my 2nd best bridge w/ 3 perimeters, Flow Adjust / Cool= 0.75 , Loop / Solid Infill Overlap = 1.25 and neither bridge perimeter is bonded to the infill:
2.5 perimeters, 0.75 Flow Adjust / Cool, Loop / Solid Infill Overlap =1.25
2.5 perimeters, 0.75 Flow Adjust / Cool, Loop / Solid Infill Overlap =1.25
Here's my worst bridge w/ 2.5 perimeters, Flow Adjust / Cool = 0.75 , Loop / Solid Infill Overlap = 0.1:
2.5 perimeters, 0.75 Flow Adjust / Cool, Loop / Solid Infill Overlap = 0.1
2.5 perimeters, 0.75 Flow Adjust / Cool, Loop / Solid Infill Overlap = 0.1
Please ask Jonathan to fix bridging so the infill bonds w/ the perimeters and of course beef up the bridging capabilities overall.
inventabuild
Posts: 271
Joined: 09 Nov 2014, 23:03

Re: Support for Bridge Settings

Post by inventabuild »

Does anyone know how to get bridging 1st layer straight lines from one side to the other without the zigzag pattern shown in my above pics?

The reason I'm asking is the zigzag (infill) doesn't touch both sides of the bridge's perimeter loops in my tests so I'd like to test straight lines across the bridges for better results.
inventabuild
Posts: 271
Joined: 09 Nov 2014, 23:03

Re: Support for Bridge Settings

Post by inventabuild »

pjr wrote:Hi Tim

This is partially addressed in the latest 1.6 beta (released today). There is a new parameter (Material/Flow Adjust/Cool) which allows you to specify the maximum volume that the fa can properly cool to prevent sagging. For me, I have this set at 0.75mm^3/s.

I have also increased Printer/Hardware/Loop-Solid infill overlap to 0.85.

Peter
Hello Peter, here's pics of a bridging print using your settings of Material/Flow Adjust/Cool = 0.75mm^3/s and Printer/Hardware/Loop-Solid infill overlap to 0.85. Notice the bridge's first layer infill fails to touch one side of the perimeters:
Material/Flow Adjust/Cool = 0.75mm^3/s, Solid infill overlap = 0.85
Material/Flow Adjust/Cool = 0.75mm^3/s, Solid infill overlap = 0.85
Here's a pic from the side of the bridge where you can see the jaggedness of the unsupported infill hanging down below the bridge:
Side View With Jaggedness Hanging Down
Side View With Jaggedness Hanging Down
Here's the stl that I used: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:169049

Are you able to print this w/ no problem? Does the bridge's 1st layer infill touch both sides of the bridge's perimeters when you print it with your KISSlicer settings?
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pjr
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Location: Kamnik, Slovenia

Re: Support for Bridge Settings

Post by pjr »

I think the overlap range changed at some point, setting the maximum to twice that it was before, and I believe effectively halved the values.

So rather than 0.85, it should now be 1.7. I will print the test and let you know.

Peter
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pjr
Posts: 692
Joined: 05 May 2015, 10:27
Location: Kamnik, Slovenia

Re: Support for Bridge Settings

Post by pjr »

Here's the result:
IMG_20181120_105709.jpg
Overlap values of 1.5, 1.7 and 2.0, but with a cool setting of 2.0 mm^3

I think 1.7 is the better one, but with this test, it does tend to pull in the perimeters; it would probably be worse if the infill were perpendicular to perimeters, but if the infill was parallel to the perimeters, it would probably be perfect ;)

Peter
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